page 1                                typOasis
 
 
A good way to lose a customer, Fontshop!
 
 
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 17:38:18 +0100, T. T. Mai-Linh wrote:
 
hi cyberpee,

while surfing on the web, i discovered that you used one of our commercial fonts to design your http://www.moorstation.org/typoasis/typoasis1.htm
page. the decorative symbols that appear on that page are all taken from our FF Mambo Medium Initials font. since you have apparently been offering illegal clone versions of our fonts on your website and are such a strong advocate of shareware fonts, i felt compelled to check our sales records but could not find any evidence that you have actually purchased any of our fonts.
if you have used our FF Mambo Medium Initials to create the images on your website but have not paid for it, please purchase the font legally from our German distributor at the following address as soon as possible:
FontShop Berlin
Bergmannstr. 102
10961 Berlin

Tel. (030) 695 895
Fax. (030) 692 8865
e-mail: info@fontshop.de

if you have used a shareware clone of FF Mambo to design your site, i request that you immediately stop using it and destroy all copies of it, and remove the FF Mambo decorative symbols from your page design. Please also destroy all other FontFont clones that you have. you should be aware that all shareware clones of our fonts have all been created illegally and without our consent, and we do take legal action against such piracy cases. however, through sites like yours, rip-off font versions continue to be distributed by other people long after we have stopped the pirates, and
this is why many people still believe that the shareware clones are legal, even though this is not at all true. you should know that type designers earn their living through the royalties they get from font sales. when you distribute illegal clones, you do irreparable financial damage to the font designers who create the fonts.

i honestly have no problems with people distributing and using shareware, as long as it REALLY is legal shareware. i just wanted to make sure you understand that our fonts are commercial software, and that ALL the cloned versions of our fonts are NOT legal and should NOT be used or distributed. please understand that when you give away our fonts or copies of our fonts for free, you are stealing other people's livelihoods.

if you really and truly love fonts and typography, please support the type designers and typefoundries who create them.
thanks.
bye,
MLT
FSI FontShop International
Bergmannstr. 102
10961 Berlin
Germany

Tel. +49 (30) 693 7022
Fax. +49 (30) 692 8443

 
*
 
I am sorry, but I don't have and I don't know Mambo, would you be so kind and tell me more details where I used it? If you are referring to the images, I used Maraca Extra (WSI, I believe) and probably Mexican Ornaments by Listemageren for decorating the letters.
As far as I remember have both fonts been downloaded from a wonderful dingbat site last year in autumn when I was on the "dingbat trip".
Regards - CybaPee
 
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:13:57 +0100, T. T. Mai-Linh wrote:
 
hiya pee,

"Maraca Extra" is indeed an illegal clone of our FF Mambo, and it does contain clones of all the FF Mambo Mexican-style symbols. the decorative Mambo symbols you used on your site are all located on the http://www.moorstation.org/typoasis/typoasis1.htm page, as follows:

1. the smiling sun with sunglasses symbol at the top of the page, in the "O" of "TypOasis"

2. the cactus symbol on the upper left-hand side of the page, inside the letter "C"

3. the martini symbol on the middle left-hand side of the page, inside the letter "v"

4. the palm-tree symbol on the lower left-hand side of the page, next to the "Links" section

5. the lizard symbol on the middle right-hand side of the page, inside the letter "A"

6. the mexican sombrero symbol on the lower right-hand of the page, on top of the letter "Q"

7. the smiling sun with sunglasses symbol at the very bottom of the page, in the "O" of "TypoOasis".

if you really like the FF Mambo symbols, and want to continue using them, you can purchase it as a single weight (it's called "FF Mambo Medium Initials") for only DM 90,- from our FontFont CD, available from FontShop Berlin.

if you're not sure if some of your shareware fonts are clones of our fonts, you can see samples of our entire font library at www.fontfont.de, and starting in May, you can test the fonts and purchase them online at www.fontfont.com.
thanks!!
bye,
MLT

 
Hi,
you better clarify this with WSI. I cannot decide whose copy is legal or not. If WSI's copy was illegal they wouldn't  talk about this font on their site and sell it, I guess.
Regards - CybaPee
 
... things are getting worse:
 
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:43:03 +0100, Pee wrote:
Hi,
 

I had a detailed look on your FF Mambo Initials as they are displayed on your web-site. The letters are completely different and some of the picture characters, too. The most important thing for me: Maraca Extra is definitively of superior quality.

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:28:27 +0100, T. T. Mai-Linh wrote:
>
>>hi pee.
>>
>>well, frankly i don't know what WSI's claim to legality is, but if you
>>check the trademark information in their font data, it says "Copyright
>>1993, 1996". however, we have written contracts that prove that the font
>>Mambo was designed in 1992 by Canadian designer Val Fullard and that she
>>granted us exclusive distribution rights for the font design in 1992.
>>
I cannot see this information, all I see is "Digital Data of the WSI font collection".
>
>>of course, you can make life easy for yourself by choosing not to believe
>>me, but honestly i don't think this really absolves you of all
>>responsibility, especially now that you have been informed of the truth.
>>
Obviously you are trying to make me feel guilty. You say that I have been informed of the truth, but for some reason you never sent any of the stuff that you describe as the truth. So why don't you prove everything you claim to be the truth?
>
>>we are now taking legal action against WSI for stealing the Mambo design,
>>but this is a completely separate issue and does not change the fact that
>>you personally must still choose whether or not to pay for the legal use of
>>the font design or stop using the illegal clone version.
>>
I can't believe that you are taking legal steps against WSI. The last thing on record is Adobe against SSI, and nothing else. I'm afraid that your odds of making a case for yourself are somewhere between 0 and -5 out of 100.
>
>>you argue that "If WSI's copy was illegal they wouldn't talk about this
>>font on their site and sell it", but that's like saying that murder is not
>>a crime because people do it all the time, therefore it must be okay. you
>>know just as well as i do that there are plenty of people and companies in
>>the world who commit crimes simply because they gain certain advantages
>>from it, and also because they have not been caught and stopped yet.
>>
What is this, a kind of brain washing? I found out that I have this Maraca Extras font on a CD that has been delivered with a piece of hardware. If you have issues, take them up with the person who profited from the font you think was stolen from your company. As a.m. Maracas Extras is different.
>
>>please think carefully about all the implications of your actions. i hope
>>you will do the right thing.
>>
You are assuming that I do not have a conscience and want to give me a crash course on how to develop one? Why don't you stop harassing me?
>
Regards - CybaPee
>
 

On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:14:47 +0100, T. T. Mai-Linh wrote:
Hi Pee.

We downloaded their data and compared the characters to ours, and they were copied exactly as one-to-one copies from our PostScript data. There is no difference in the letterforms. And TrueType can never have better quality than PostScript, simply because it is physically a much more limited data format, where the printer font and the screen font are jammed together into
a single font file. It seems like you are just looking for an excuse to feel justified in not having to pay for the designer's work. The point is, whether or not you "like" their version better, their version is still an illegal copy, which you perhaps unknowingly used at the time. But now that you know the truth, you have a responsibility to act honorably towards the true designer of the font.

As I said, if you really loved fonts and typography as I do, you would also be willing support them. It makes me really sad that so many people who claim to love fonts are always so quick to rip off the designers who did all the work. Please reconsider.

MLT
 

 
Mosuna Extras, a piece of original design. Any complaints?
 
 ***
 
Another good way to get rid of a customer, Linotype!
 
Mr.Bruno Steinert (Linotype) wrote (in german, this is translated by program):
>We draw your attention  to the fact that there are fonts  which are registered as international label also after >international trademark law for our parent company Heidelberger printing machines AG. As example for this our label >" Peignot " is mentioned.

There was a Peignot on my site with the entry "Macromedia Fontographer". The original Peignot has been designed 1937 by A.M. Cassandre, now it's a standard font sold by nearly every font foundry. There are versions around with the name Penguin (Corel), PigNose or Peridot (Rubicon), some are free, others are Shareware versions. I don't know why Mr.Steinert is referring to a font without a Linotype entry in it, but I will replace the Peignot with a Peridot or so.

>From your illegitimate, world-wide passing on of our mental property a substantial economic damage results to us at >least within the six-digit DM area. Since we cannot imagine that you want to expose yourselves to our claims for >damages as well as further legal measures and we ask first to assume  that you operate your Website in unawareness >of the legal surrounding field, we you hereby most politely to close and put only then again into operation this Site >immediately, if you guaranteed free of doubts that the offered data do not violate the rights third.

I checked all pages and could not find any Linotype font. So it is indeed a surprising calculation, this "six-digit DM area" for no Linotype font on my pages...

>For the acceleration of the process we transmit this writing by email. Your address is well-known to us.

How clever! It's not so difficult to look up this information, because this is not an illegal site! What did he expect?
Whatever - I closed my pages temporarily to get them checked and they will be back within some days. And the next threatening mail will be replied in the same way if the cooperative way has no effect.
 

On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:46:52 +0100, bsteinert@HDPP.de wrote:
(translated by machine)
 
 
First of all I thank you for the prompt reaction. I regret that you are so disappointed over our methodology, but unfortunately we have only a few methods left.
By the numerous, often scruplesless, usually however only in good faith-notionless distributor of pirate copies our work we are simply forced to use them. The Franzis publishing house for example, quoted by you, we have - as many others - already warned.
We are a relatively small enterprise, which dedicates itself to the production and selling of writings. We look on a proud tradition back: We administer  the inheritance of the schriftgiessereien stamps, Haas and Deberny & Peignot.
Some of our coworkers are naturals since 40 years and more in this profession, and we have in addition young, enthusiastic Typomanen among us. Famous designers such as Hermann Zapf and for Adrian Frutiger still operate closely with us. Some writing projects take up up to the completion over three years. It is then very frustrating for our team, if our work is converted once and gets the name changed and circulates as Freeware.
As your Website is very beautifully, carefully and affectionately arranged, I do not assume that you want to play robber and gendarme with respectable Font foundries. Rather it probably lacks the correct information. If you do not have it yet, I send gladly free of charge our Fontexplorer catalog with CD to you. Thus you have a reference book, which helps you to differentiate commercial Fonts (naturally only from our supply) from Freeware and PD. With interest: email is sufficient.
In all other respects I offer to you gladly, if necessary at any time, any other information to help with materials. If you should be in Frankfurt, we would be very pleased to show you how our fonts are made and how the team works behind them.
In the end I would be very grateful if you would examine the fonts on your Fontennium site.
 
***
An expert for visual communication:
 
I'm curious as to why you like to shit on the "font police". They seem only to be attempting to protect the interests of a few individuals who are trying to live from their creative work. I understand the sentiment when it comes to the large type firms who, one might think, have already made their fortunes from their type libraries. But where does one draw the line? If it's a small firm with two or three people, one shouldn't steal from them, of course. Sort of like the mom & pop store on the corner (bei Susannenstr?). But it's OK to steal from Sears (oder KDW?) because they are a huge faceless corporation, right? So again, where do you draw the line? If it's a mid-sized company with, say, 8 people, are they large enough to steal from? Or perhaps we should agree to stop drawing these stupid lines altogether, stop stealing (or distributing*) other people's work (however big their companies are) and make our own things (e.g. fonts) honestly.

Jay Rutherford
The Rutherford Press (one of the small guys)
Prellerstr. 16
99423 Weimar
Germany

* Is it OK to sell drugs as long as you don't make them yourself?

P.S. I have the guts to post my address here. Do you have the guts to post this note on your site?

Why not, Professor?
I am trying to protect my interests - enjoying fonts, playing with PSP-design on fonts, share and collect them. Without profit. Just for fun. If a commercial font should be found on my site, this is not intended and it will be removed as soon as I am told about it (see page 1). So what is the problem? Be happy that you didn't have to see my one and only attempt to get a font done with Softy :-)

 
 
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